10 degrees vs. 45 degrees Off Vertical

+1 vote
asked Jul 20, 2012 by ijohnpederson Kubbnoob (190 points)
retagged Jul 28, 2012 by thingles

Let me be That Guy™.

I'm curious about the reasoning regarding the difference between the  US vs. World standards regaring 10 degrees vs. 45 degrees off vertical on throwing batons.

I'll be honest.  As a new Kubb'r, I came into the US Nationals feeling like I thought I understood the rules.  I understand no propeller, no helicopter,  but the fact that it had to cross the entire pitch at +/- 10 degrees really threw me.

Is keeping strict regarding +/- 10 degrees realistic, especially for the majority of the teams not in the Sweet 16 of the US Nationals?  (See what I did there?)

 

Somewhere, likely back in the lores of US Kubb, there's a thread.  BTW, the ability to simply ask the question is mostly why I love Kubb.
commented Jul 29, 2016 by asHaupyl8daj 1 flag

3 Answers

+1 vote
answered Jul 20, 2012 by ropadope Kubbnoob (160 points)
As a first time US National'r my main gripe was the silliness of the 10 degree rule. The whole "police yourself" thing was, well... I highly doubt there was much self-policing. When I found out that the World standard was 45 degrees it made so much more sense. Certainly there will be less grumbling.

One of the guys on our team got called on the second throw of the tournament by the other team on something less than obvious and it cast a very unfriendly vibe. We figured, "Oh this is how it is here," and we called one a couple games later on a guy who was consistently doing it. He was kind of a dick about it -- and continued doing it the rest of the match.

I highly doubt that a throw at 25-30 degrees is as accurate as one at 0. There is no benefit to a poor throwing style.

Anyway, dumb rule.
0 votes
answered Jul 23, 2012 by THansenite Ironkubb ✭ (2,660 points)
I actually like the rule.  It is the same for everyone and within the spirit of the game to keep it vertical.  I think it would be too easy for people to start pushing the 45 degree rule and throwing helicopters.  If you can't hit the kubb with a baton spinning vertically, it shouldn't be knocked over.

It stinks you were called that early on.  I saw many helicopter throws in the early rounds, but didn't call them because I see those rounds as more friendly matches.  If I think someone is throwing helicopters, I'll warn them and let them know that the next time I'm going to call it.  That usually makes them think more about their throws and keeps everyone happy.

Everyone plays with the same rules and they have always been 10 degrees at nationals.
commented Dec 5, 2017 by mapeterson
It has not been 10 degrees at nationals.  The rule allows for 45 degrees.  We don't play by the "spirit" of the rule.  We play by the rule itself.
commented Dec 5, 2017 by garrickvanburen Kubblic ❚ (7,330 points)
@mapeterson - it was 10 degrees at the time of the original thread. It's since been increased to 45.
0 votes
answered Jul 23, 2012 by Evan F Ironkubb ✭ (1,960 points)
edited Jul 23, 2012 by Evan F
Actually, this is a very good topic for those of us newer to Kubb.  While I understand the attempt to tighten the restriction for the spirit of the rule of throwing it vertically, I don't believe it's practical in execution.

I think +/- 10 degrees is too small of a percentage and too difficult to judge. 10 degrees only allow for 1" of wobble off center and that is less than the width of the baton.  I would suspect that if there was a way too measure it accurately, it would have to be called very frequently even at the higher levels of play.  

Most new kubbers, and especially the younger ones would be penalized constantly.

On a windy day, even with best intentions and technique a 1" wobble would be difficult to obtain.
commented Jul 23, 2012 by THansenite Ironkubb ✭ (2,660 points)
I think the 10 degree rule is much like the speed limit.  Of course, people go over from time to time and some more than most without getting caught.  It is when people really try testing the limit and go way over that they get caught.  Ideally, you want the baton to rotate perfectly vertically, but not a lot of people can do that.  I think the intent is more to encourage people to throw that way instead of putting any off-vertical movement on the batons.
commented Jul 23, 2012 by Evan F Ironkubb ✭ (1,960 points)
I don't see where it makes sense to have a rule (if it's there, then it should be enforced) where not a lot of people can do that.

I agree with the intent of the rule, but I believe the standard is too tight to be practical.  If teams want to be dicks about it, even when it's pretty clear the intent of the thrower isn't to push the limits, then according to  the rule the players that can't throw it within a +/-10 degrees should have their throws nullified.  And if I interpret the rules correctly, would be subject to teams eventually losing batons, etc.
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