Are pins a required part of the game? Can a legal pitch have no pins?

Question

There has been a really good conversation going on about the center pins and the role that they play in the game. I've been following it out of interest but only just recently has something I've been considering ran into this debate, in a way.

The way I see it, and from other conversations on Ask Planet Kubb, the Kubb Pitch is intended to be made up of "pure" lines, by that I mean they have no thickness. So a kubb is in our out based on the percentage of the kubb that is over this line, having no width, that passes over or through it. Obviously the pins themselves have width so I think most players use a theoretical centerline down the pins. I've been thinking about how to create something that is like the pure line based pitch, and I think I can, with lasers!

My idea is to get five laser line generators to create a pitch with. If at this point you think I'm joking with you, I am not. Each line of the pitch (2 baseline, 2 sideline, centerline) would have it's own laser. Using a laser line generator I would put each one on a pole about couple feet in the air (need to do some math to know the right height) and place a line directly on the ground for the pitch.

I think this would be simply awesome. Using a line generator would make calls on kubbs being in or out super easy. Putting the line generator on a pole would allow the centerline to literally paint over the centerline of the king. Plus, the poles themselves would be entirely out of the pitch so there would be no obstacles (pins) for batons or kubbs to hit.

Now, before getting to the heart of my question consider playing at dusk/night with a laser illuminated pitch and batons and kubbs that have embedded LED's in them. Oh yeah. Tron meets Kubb! Awesome.

Back to the matter. On the theoretical hand I would think this would be am amazing way to mark a pitch. But I'm curious if the lack of pins would make it illegal entirely. I'm not suggesting that a tournament grid will be drawn from a tower laser in the sky, yet. And I realize I'm free to make whatever pitch I want in the park to play on. But what do people think? Would this be legal? And perhaps this is an interesting way to address the question of the centerpins.

If ultimately the pins are considered just game equipment, the whole laser idea would need to be reconsidered. I've considered the idea of shooting a laser through the corner pins to aid with kubb in or out calls anyway.

Comments

In the Swedish national championships they draw white lines like on a football field. You are not allowed to touch the lines with a kubb when you raise them up. In the WC they use pins. Both ways goes!

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The concept of laserlines are really interesting, but, consider you guys live in a country where lawsuits can get really expensive. Can you afford a kid getting damaged eyes? Be sure to find harmless laser if there is such a thing as harmless lasers strong enough to make good lines. If there is, I love the idea!

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Yeah, ultimately the power required is way too much. See the comment below

http://ask.planetkubb.com/736/are-pins-required-part-of-the-game-can-legal-pitch-have-no-pins?show=759#c759

Answer 1

illegal? what? I've already pre-ordered a TacoCopter drone with the laser kubb pitch add-on.

Answer 2

I am in love with the pure line pitch concept and am personally willing to do whatever I can to help you make the laser pitch a reality. I've been dreaming of a pitch like this for YEARS and have experimented with glow in the dark and other dark play options to boot. I'm in. Now on to your question.

As for legality. From the perspective of a tournament player, my goal is to play the game and have fun. Sometimes, honestly, the marker pins and lack of "perfect" lines can get in the way of that. As tournament organizers know, it isn't a "done deal" setting a pitch in the morning for a tournament. Sometimes the lines aren't perfect to begin with, but after tripping and drilling, pins get moved and/or can't stand "straight" anymore. So the markers end up being a question at some point, and I'd rather play than ask questions. So because of how pitches are laid out in all of the tournaments I've played in, these markers are no doubt a part of the game. I guess I might call them a necessary evil at this point. At every tournament I've been at there HAS been an issue with pins not lining up square, back line kubbs not on the line (what line, middle of kubb or behind?), and the king being off center - I think you all would agree we need to reduce these instances as much as possible.

This conversation also assmes that tournaments take place on a surface that allows holes and pins in the first place. But when I play indoors, or on the street, I can draw a line as thin as I want (or a wide band of sidewalk chalk like this past weekend on the concrete streets of Downtown Kubbtown) to define the pitch, and play without pins. This is another way I come to the conclusion that corner/side pins are not a necessary part of the game, nor required to make a game legal. They are the most common way I've seen players "define" a pitch on a soft surface, and as such become a part of play.

Without more clarification, marking pins will become more of an issue, not less. How tall/deep in the ground? What diameter?  What if they are floppy? Etc.

I've also tripped on marker pins more times than I can count (and broken at least one toe on them - seriously foolish to play barefoot). Add that to the reasons why I'd like to see alternatives explored and utilized by tournaments.

At at least one bar league played around here, rope was used to mark the borders on sand, no pins.  

A mobile laser setup would make the perfect final pitch for tournament championships... and if you need a test pitch, come on over and deploy some lasers!!!

Comments

the risk of broken toes is enough for me to vote for lasers.

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We should take a clue from the Olympic beach volleyball players.  Their court is marked by tight elastic lines on the sand.  There are no pins above ground anywhere.  Maybe while we're at it, require all players to adopt their uniforms too.  Even when it's 20 degrees outside!

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I have left a comment in another, related, thread, that may be some help?

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@ringerjr: I ordered the 5 line lasers required today. Will take a little while to get it all figured out but I'll definitely share the results of how this all works out.

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I received my 5mW red line lasers today and they make a line, but they are far far too weak to make a line when it isn't dusk or slightly darker. I've asked on a laser forum for some suggestions on the power of laser required for this application. It seems a 50mW green laser might be there, but may require even more power which might make this not feasible. I'm still hopeful though. Otherwise, laser kubb may be relegated to night kubb.

http://laserpointerforums.com/f44/suggested-laser-displaying-lines-daylight-76626.html

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I just went out at dusk and can report that a 5mW red line laser paints a nice line 8-10m long. The concept here would definitely work, I just need to determine color and power to see during the day.